Tempo fluctuations

[FuseU1]

..."with experience, you get to feel how other musicians internal pulse feels. how it relates to your's and how to exude different feeling pulses...
the masters do this without anyone knowing"...

Great post, Chris.

Now, even though i continuously strive for it, i wouldnt exactly say that i have perfect "Weckl timing" 100% of the time [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] or anything [ESP when playing withOUT a click - which isn't often, if i can help it], but...

...I played in a showband w a really good gtrst for 3 yrs. He would disagree w me over the tempos, & eventually to the point where he would "vibe" me on stage in front of the audience...[you know what i mean - the faces, gestures; stomping his foot, etc]...the bandleader had to get on him...

...now, dont get me wrong, he had good time...but sometimes, 2 or more diff players who have "good time" when you listen to them on their own or in 1 certain situation can sound completely diff when paired together with diff [combinations of] players [i know, i know - if a player has good time/is a great listener/gives & takes, then they have good time]...I kept telling him that since his feel was so on/on top/bright, that for me to "keep up with him" [as he would sternly "request" - yeah, right?] meant that the whole thing sounded top heavy & rushing, & he would "fight me on it." & it got heated at times.

So, i started gathering copies of videos from fans who would come up & tell us that they "cam'ed set[s] so-&-so." Then, i'd watch them, & make an honest assessment of what was going on. Then, I'd show them to him. Well, aft the first time of showing him diff spots in a couple of sets, he relented. Our last gig together was a 10 or 12 day event, & sometime during the last 3 days or so, he approached me & said that our groove together was finally consistent aft 3 yrs, & felt really good [it wasnt all that bad the whole time, really, when listening back to a few tapes & VHS's over the yrs; he would just freak], & that i was right the whole time, that he shouldve just "relaxed & went w the flow," instead of trying to fight me at every turn in the groove...this last line is IMPERATIVE for all musicians...on the bandstand, if the time isnt exactly where one wants or perceives it to be, just simply relax & listen to where it IS & make the proper mental [awa physical] adjustments, instead of contributing to a tug of war with the freekin drummer!! The time wont be nearly as bad as if one DOES "fight" w the other players. It is very important that everyone LISTEN to EACH OTHER, even in the perceived "simplest" of tunes [this all goes back to what chris said]. [I know this is nothing new to most everyone here.]

Anyway, just one little take I'd thought I'd post...thx for lettin' me "vent". [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 13, 2004 04:51 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[Lee Collins]

Thanks chris for your post, some great advice. I have to say though that when I started this thread, I was never under any illusion that my particular tempo problems were to do with the other players. As far as I can see, this has nothing really to do with other players making me rush or drag, this has to do with me fluctuating due to unevenness in my own playing. I've tested this by just listening back to myself playing beats, just me and the drumkit and noone else, and I can hear when downbeats and fills are are not sitting right. I just have to work on it more I guess. I can get away with murder doing gigs, but in a recording situation, there's little room for rushing and dragging. [img]redface.gif[/img]

[chris perra]

i didn't mean to come across as it must be the other guys fault. that can be an attitude that can cause pletny of problems as well.

for me timing problems are primarily caused by not physically having complete command of what i'm playing.

to me it comes down to clean hands and feet to begin with, then a solid feeling of the pulse, then the ability to get past thinking about the hands and feet.

this is the hard part.


pushing and pulling from band mates can effect things internally. potentially mucking with your pulse.

getting to the point where muscle memory wise you don't have to intentionally control each stroke is the only way i can be as certain as i can.

to train for this , recording with a click gives you the reference point to fine tune the muscle memory needed to play gigs live,clickless, with a solid internal pulse.

it takes awhile to be able to play any groove at any tempo effortlessly without thinking about it.

that's what we all strive for.


chris perra